Do women give shorter white guys a pass?

Desilou
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Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #1

This is something I've noticed with interracial dating. 

Shorter white guys seem to get some kind of pass from non-white women.

I will not deny that a taller man (any race) will have more potential for better outcomes when it comes to dating non-Indian women.

However, I notice that non-white women will be more accepting of a shorter white guy while scoffing at shorter men from their own race and culture.

There is this Asian woman I know who always has something negative to say about short men, but her current boyfriend is 5'6 or so, but white.

I called her out on this and she said, "but he's different".

All of her Asian boyfriends were exceptionally tall.

The only thing "different" about him is that he is not Asian.

I've seen this with Indian women I know also.

What is your take on this. Have you noticed this?

 

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Re: Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #2

Yep. I notice this too. There is a racial hierarchy and a height hierarchy. They are separate, but intersect.

For black men with few exceptions, he has to be hyper-masculine. This can be expressed with height or top-tier material things.

For Asian and Indian men, they have to be tall and successful in most cases if they want to date out unless they are dating a woman who culturally would benefit from of their genetic traits.

White men unequivocally get a pass with reason. How else could Oprah date Roger Ebert (5'6), but then end up with Stedman Graham (6'7).

Do you think a black version of Roger Ebert would've had a fighting chance with her at any point during her career?

 

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Re: Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #3

I have seen this even in my family. It's not just about height either. Well, height conveys status and in this society, so does being white.

In this case, the Asian men have to come with height if they are not successful. If they are successful, there is some leeway.

There is more leeway with a white guy though.

Even when I was in school, I'd hear some of my friends criticize a guy for how he dressed, what kind of car he had (college), if he had his license (high school), how good his teeth was, etc and then go date a white guy who dressed like a bum.

This is not a judgement against any man who is white, rather just speaking to the fact that in dating, being white gets you bonus points and can make up for things that women will be more critical of if they were dealing with a non-white person.

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Re: Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #4

This is definitely a thing.

In my community you have women who will cape for men who aren't black, it's not just about being white.

Hear me out. My sister's friend did not date her own kind (black men) unless they were mixed, and if they were mixed with black they had to be tall. Now she didn't say this, but I'm going by who she bought around.

If they were Spanish, Arab or Indian, they could be any height and she would bring some short mofos around!

The only thing though was that they always had to be fresh from head to toe and had to have something going for themselves. They absolutely could not look like a bum.

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Re: Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #5

Quote:

Originally posted by AsianGod

There is more leeway with a white guy though.

Even when I was in school, I'd hear some of my friends criticize a guy for how he dressed, what kind of car he had (college), if he had his license (high school), how good his teeth was, etc and then go date a white guy who dressed like a bum.


Definitely this. The white guys in these scenarios could dress like anything with these women.

Indian or Asian guy needed to have some style, even if they are tall.

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Re: Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #6

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckChill

In my community you have women who will cape for men who aren't black, it's not just about being white.

Hear me out. My sister's friend did not date her own kind (black men) unless they were mixed, and if they were mixed with black they had to be tall. Now she didn't say this, but I'm going by who she bought around.


True that! My aunt's friend is this Dominican woman (basically black, if she didn't open her mouth, you would think she was African American by appearance). Her kid's father was Peruvian, but short, I want to say 5'5.

Her current husband though is 6'4 with dreads. 

Why does this matter?

She had a kid with the Peruvian. That kid is grown now, but has light skin and curly hair.

In other words, that Peruvian guy had a use case. I've seen her other boyfriends.

All this to say, yes, White Guys do get a pass, but also it's culture-specific. Sometimes, it's more that your own kind doesn't get a pass.

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Re: Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #7

I think so. White women give me the hardest time and I'm white.

I find though that black, hispanic and asian women are usually the most receptive to me and give me the least push-back overall. That's not to say that I have anywhere near a 100% or even 30% success rate. I didn't get, nor still get dates at any high clip, but when I do score a phone number or social media handle, I usually have the most success with the women I just mentioned. 

I can see what AsianGod is saying. I've seen the exes of some of my black and hispanic girlfriends and they looked and dressed nothing like myself, and were definitely much taller.

 

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Re: Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #8

Quote:

Originally posted by joshbaskins

I think so. White women give me the hardest time and I'm white.

I find though that black, hispanic and asian women are usually the most receptive to me and give me the least push-back overall. That's not to say that I have anywhere near a 100% or even 30% success rate. I didn't get, nor still get dates at any high clip, but when I do score a phone number or social media handle, I usually have the most success with the women I just mentioned. 

I can see what AsianGod is saying. I've seen the exes of some of my black and hispanic girlfriends and they looked and dressed nothing like myself, and were definitely much taller.

 


This is exactly what I mean when I said "your kind doesn't get a pass".

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Re: Do women give shorter white guys a pass?
post #9

I've definitely seen rhis in my own family. I'm Puerto Rican. Some of my family members have married Dominicans. It doesn't work the way you're explaining here. There definitely is a "preference" for white men in conversation, but I haven't seen this play out in their lives.

I have some cousins who love black men, and they've been pretty generous when it comes to height. I've seen some date short ones and tall ones. They will date white men, but they usually have to be tall and have a lot of swagg. They can't be preppy or anything like that.

Most of them express that they aren't into Indian and Asian men. 

I do have one family friend who married an Asian guy. She's also Puerto Rican. The guy is short, balding, but loaded. The guy's family owns restaurants. 

Most of my family members are into Latinos though for cultural and language reasons.

Outside of my family though, I've definitely noticed that with other groups and South American Latinos a big preference for and more leeway granted to white guys.

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Why Shorter Men Should Be Wary Of The Manosphere

As we age, we generally aspire to find the meaning of life, the meaning of things, the meaning of norms, and why things are the way they are. From Greek philosophy to Pre-Roman Germanic, Native American to West African oral traditions to even monotheistic religious texts, you’ll find sayings, reasonings, fables, parables and cautionary tales. As we moved into the modern era, science, objective observation and record keeping have mostly taken their place, but used for the same reason, to help solve problems, prevent or prepare for disasters and to explain why things are the way they are. 

 

See Also: Top 25 Short CEOs, Business Leaders and Entrepreneurs

 

Throughout history, whether that knowledge came in the form of stories, traditions, observations or recorded facts, it was often the seasoned, the older and the experienced who passed it on to those coming up behind them, hoping to shape the next generation into carriers of their knowledge, values and customs.

INTRODUCTION

Let's pivot to another but related and decidedly more modern topic: the "Manosphere"... Oh boy. If there ever was a controversial corner of social media hyper-focused on dating, dating customs and gender dynamics, it's this loose network of self-proclaimed "experts" and modern-day newsbearers spread across countless platforms. Many have built enormous followings by presenting their conclusions as irrefutable truths, often built upon their own personal experiences, a handful of statistics that appear to reinforce those experiences—or assumptions—and then defending those conclusions with relentless conviction against anyone offering a different interpretation or additional context.


Women aren't quite off the hook either. While it isn't called the "Woman-O-Sphere," (yet anyway as of 2026), a complementary force absolutely exists across many of these same platforms. "Sprinkle, sprinkle" ring a bell? The "he needs to make $200K and be at least 6'2"" crowd? “The if he doesn’t send an Uber, there’ll be no date crowd?” Any of those tropes sound familiar? Between channels where the word "narcissist" gets thrown around so often it has practically lost all clinical meaning, and the proliferation of influencers promoting finessing your way into a "soft life" on forums and through videos alike as though it's an entitlement, you might say we have problems on both sides of the court.

Now before we move into the content, you might be giving me the side eye as you read this. You might even say that The Lower View is "Manosphere-Adjacent." That's a fair criticism. We do, in fact, engage in many of the same practices we've just identified. We cite studies, share our experiences and occasionally offer a bit of conjecture. However, what makes us different? For starters, we don't sell $10,000 courses. More importantly, our tagline is "A place where we discuss the experiences of shorter men." We welcome all viewpoints, from the single to the married, the widowed to the underemployed, all the way to the chairman of the board. Our site is open to everyone. We value the opinions of those who disagree with our assertions, and we always make it clear—or at least try to—that the perspectives and judgments expressed in our articles and comment sections belong to the individual writers and commenters themselves. I know you’re waiting for the discussion about the manosphere. We’ll get there, but I want to set it up first with a few anecdotes.

 

THE TALL OF IT

When I got my first job in college, one of my co-workers was a 6'4" guy. Many of the ladies loved interacting with him, and many of the guys wanted to hang around him. Every other week or so, however, someone in the workplace was absolutely livid with him. At first, I couldn't understand why. That changed after he and I had a verbal scuffle. It was a relatively minor disagreement, but his response was filled with vitriol and pointed insults. He carried himself as though he owned the place and was above everyone else. After that incident, I approached every future interaction with him cautiously.

As time went on, he instigated several more disputes with both me and other co-workers. One thing I couldn't help but notice, however, was his social genius. First, he never behaved that way around management. Second, he had an uncanny ability to navigate situations so that he never got caught. If someone confronted him or reported his behavior, there was always an alibi or a perfectly crafted explanation that his supervisors seemed eager to accept. It frustrated everyone to no end. His circle of admirers would eventually disappear one by one, but because it was retail and employees were constantly coming and going, every new hire would eventually fall under his spell for a while. I worked there for several years, and just before I graduated—roughly two years after I started—he finally received a verbal thrashing and a formal write-up from management. My question was always: what took so long?

There was another co-worker who stood nearly as tall as he did. Before he got married, some of his friends described him as quite the ladies' man. Then his wife cheated on him, and what followed was a brutal custody battle that cost him tens of thousands of dollars. By the end of it, he looked dead behind the eyes. Height, popularity and success in one area of life don't make someone immune to terrible circumstances, nor do they make them an authority on relationships, judgment or life itself.

There was yet another man who worked in there who stood at about 6’3 if I recall. Understand that in a lot of retail jobs, a large portion of the workers tend to be quite young, so there can be immaturity amongst the staff. Many of the female co-workers would gossip heavily about how “annoying” this 6’3 guy was. They would smile to his face and babble the moment he was 3 feet away. They would comment negatively on everything from his scent to his clothes to the way he talked. Just horrible stuff. As far as I knew, he was a pretty cool guy, but not to the ladies. They roasted him every chance they got. Who knows what they said about me when I wasn’t around!

Now, of course, these are anecdotes, and none of these situations represent the lives of all tall men. That's precisely the point. What I took away from those years in retail wasn't that tall men have it easy or hard. It was that being tall doesn't make someone infallible. Height, popularity, wisdom and success are all different things, and possessing one doesn't guarantee the others. Likewise, having a trait that much of today's social media culture treats as “coveted" doesn't make someone an authority on relationships, judgment or life itself.

With that fairly long introduction (apologies!), I want to discuss, without further delay, why shorter men in particular need to be wary of the general manosphere.”

 

ENTER THE SPHERE

The first time I encountered the word "Manosphere" was around 2014. Back then, it was largely a loose network of blogs that were hyper-critical of women. The common thread was hard to miss: "all women are...", "all women must...". You get the idea. Many of the articles and comment sections were filled with resentment, and some comments bordered on outright cruelty. Eventually, many of those same ideas made their way to YouTube, where creators adopted a similar formula but reached much larger audiences.

One of the first creators in this space I came across was a guy named Richard Cooper. An entrepreneur who apparently found considerable success in business, Cooper often spoke about his divorce and used those experiences to warn other men—frequently from behind the wheel of his car. Cooper, who has self-reported as 6'4", was known for phrases like, "Women wait at the finish line and pick the winners." Divorce, family court and child support became recurring themes in much of the content I was exposed to.

Later in the decade, creators began investing heavily in professional cameras, lighting, microphones and studio setups, often spending thousands of dollars to increase the quality of their productions. The presentation became slicker, the audiences became larger, and the influence grew with them. One team in particular that exploded in popularity was Fresh and Fit. We're going to land here for a bit because their trajectory—and their constant appearance in headlines—was one of the motivations behind writing this article.

Myron Gaines (Fresh, né Amrou Fudl) and Fit (né Walter Weekes, a.k.a Fresh Prince CEO) purport themselves to be “high-value men”. Similar to Cooper, they are also hypercritical of women, spend most of their time discussing hypergamy, and teach men how to level up in the face of their supposed laser-focused intentional social climbing female counterparts. Unlike Cooper, they regularly invite women on their show (who they stylize as “girls”) and aim to destroy their egos and denigrate them at every opportunity, even when some agree to appear in “good faith” (truth be told, many who appear do so to increase their own social media following, but that is not the focus of this article). Okay, you get it. But Myron, who stands at 6’3 was caught in two major scandals (many more than that, but two that are worth discussing) in the last couple of years. The first involved him contacting a model and then telling her that she would be doing herself a “favor” by getting intimate with him” (she made it clear she wasn’t interested and leaked the text), and the other more recently where his supposed “long-term” girlfriend left him for a man she met at a rollerblade event one weekend.

Donavan Sharpe, another manosphere creator, who found his fame in the years leading up to the explosion of Fresh & Fit, spent years warning men about single mothers and instructing men to speak to women harshly, with directives and constantly referred to them as “sl-ts”. After some of his detractors did some digging, they discovered that his girlfriend was in fact… a single mother. He later went on to marry her in a very unconventional marriage ceremony. Donavan stands at 6’1. The man who preached the importance of being fit, became the very opposite of fit”. Yeah… “high-value” … Lol.

Now the aim here isn’t to be superficial. The aim isn’t to disparage or assault their character. Rather, to point out the contradictions and revelations. There are so many more examples. Coach Red Pill, who passed away in 2025 had a similar format to Cooper who we described earlier, but went further with even harsher rhetoric and racist rants. He stood at 6 feet. Then there’s Sneako, a character standing at 6’2 who has been outright banned from Australia. You have Andrew Tate, a former kickboxing champion who had his comeuppance in the space in the early 2020s. He has faced criminal investigations and charges related to human trafficking and other allegations. These are “High-Value Men”? All are well above six feet, at some point made well over six figures, and at some point, were in great shape (the third six: a “six pack”). Based on the facts, these men struggled with some or all—greed, the ladies, the law, discipline, money, self-respect and insecurity. Aren’t these the attributes that society tells you a shorter guy supposedly lack? Not I, and not many that I know. This is not to say that they struggle because they’re tall, we’re not making blanket statements here, but rather that just because you’re tall does NOT mean that you’ll have all of these things in the bag. Just because you are short, does not mean that all of these things are unattainable.

 

See Also: If You're A Shorter Man, Both Political Parties Hate You

 

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE

This brings me to Aba Atlas of the YouTube-famous duo “Aba and Preach.” Aba is of particular interest to me in this article because some of his early success was due, in part, to a video about heightism—a video that, to my estimation, became his first million-view video, at least the first one I can recall, helping propel the duo to the forefront of popular online culture during the mid-2010s, specifically in 2016.

In the video, titled “The Hypocrisy of Women Not Wanting to Date Short Men,” Aba criticized what he saw as a double standard: women could be highly critical of men's preferences regarding certain body types, behavioral traits and chastity, yet some would absolutely destroy men over the subject of height. His point was that height criticism could roll off the tongue so casually and without awareness that the person delivering it was committing the very kind of superficial judgment they might otherwise criticize in men.

I remember scrolling through the thousands of comments, many of which cheered Aba on for being bold enough to challenge the prevailing social discourse. What particularly stood out to me was Aba's pinned comment at the time, in which he insisted that criticism of the video wouldn't affect him personally because he was 6 feet tall.

The exact comment read:

“FYI I’m 6 feet tall so I’m not a manlet. I’m only stating my height because folks seem to believe I made this video because I’m ‘butthurt’. Far from it, I honestly don’t feel strongly about this issue I’m just [a] curious dude who likes to poke fun at shit.”

[Corrections made for grammar in his original comment.]

Well, well, well.

Fast-forward ten years, and Aba himself found himself in a pot of scalding water when several women accused him of having unprotected relations with them, subsequently getting them pregnant and then asking them to terminate the pregnancies. The accusations began emerging one after another.

Many of Aba's fans had come to appreciate what they viewed as his level-headed approach and relatively bias-free, “high-IQ” commentary. Others frequently praised his apparent support for women and his understanding of the importance of recognizing their emotional states and allowing them to process their circumstances in their own way.

Aba addressed the accusations in several videos, where he acknowledged and poked fun at his own irresponsibility when it came to using protection. Many of his detractors—including Myron Gaines of Fresh & Fit, whom we discussed earlier—used the opportunity to go scorched-earth on Aba, accusing him of hypocrisy for criticizing manosphere creators for their openly polygamous approach to dating while allegedly enjoying quite a variety of women behind closed doors.

My point here is that Aba, whom I and many others came to appreciate for his “high-EQ” commentary, is not immune to the same contradictions and poor decisions that he has criticized in others.

Going back to his pinned comment about his own height, there is something particularly interesting in retrospect. Aba wasn't merely aware of the double standard surrounding height; he was also explicitly aware of his own advantage within that dynamic. That doesn't make him responsible for the choices he later made, nor does it mean his height caused any of them. But it does illustrate an important point: understanding a social dynamic intellectually doesn't necessarily make you immune to participating in it yourself.

Consider the super-tall 6'5" YouTube creator Derrick Jackson, who heavily criticized men, developed a large and loyal female following, and was later exposed for cheating on his wife with multiple women. Aba took pleasure in chastising Jackson once the news of his multiple affairs became public.

Yet the two men weren't as different as their respective public personas might suggest. Both were tall men who understood the advantages that could come with physical appearance and social popularity. Neither, however, was immune to making serious personal mistakes.

That's really the point.

The argument isn't that Aba—or Derrick Jackson, for that matter—is a bad person because of what happened. Nor is it that their height somehow caused their behavior. It's that physical advantages, social advantages and even intellectual insight into human behavior don't make anyone immune to contradiction, temptation or poor judgment.

And that is precisely why shorter men should be careful about treating anyone in the manosphere—or anywhere else—as an unquestionable authority on how to navigate life.

 

See Also: Comebacks For Short Jokes

 

OUT AND ABOUT

On any given day here in New York City, Bushwick, Brooklyn in particular, I can walk down Broadway under the Jamaica Avenue El (The iconic J, M and Z subway lines for those who aren’t familiar) and see tons of men (and women) who are struggling with addiction, nodding off while standing up or lying on the ground. Many more are struggling with housing insecurity and their finances. On social media, in various Facebook groups, you can see men, many of them tall (you can tell from profile photos) nervously posting about unpaid child support, custody situations, what seems to be impossible debt, job insecurity and a mountain of other issues. This is not to say that shorter men do not have any of the same struggles, but from a bird’s eye view, it seems evenly distributed.

Now, I say this not to brag. I promise you that. My life is far from perfect, but I do have a great job, live in a decent place and am living in indisputable peace. I have plenty of friends, had a pretty eventful dating life, continue to date and have not had to deal with all of the issues that our Manosphere brutes have had to endure. I have a great family, travel, have hobbies and do most of the things that others do for their own satisfaction. Many shorter guys on various online forums report the same, even those who (rightfully) complain about the downsides of being on the shorter side. While being taller would be nice because of the added social benefits, being short does not preclude us from attaining social positives and important life milestones. For some things, they may possibly be harder depending on your other attributes, but again, not necessarily impossible. In other words, the main thing one gains from being tall is not being called or dealing with the stigma of being short. It does not prevent us from living an otherwise fulfilling life. The famous Robert Reich (former Secretary Of Labor under President Clinton, 1993-1997 who stands at four foot eleven inches) once said on an episode of ABC 20/20, “don’t let being short stop you”. And you shouldn’t let it. Being a “high value man” shouldn’t in my opinion be your goal. Being in a place where you are doing things you are passionate about (for work and play), respected by others for the value you bring (relationships, the workplace, family, hobbies) are what will make people value you highly.

 

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CONCLUSION

The internet is full of people eager to tell you why your life isn't good enough and what you need to buy, become, or believe to fix it. As a shorter man, you'll hear plenty of voices telling you that height is your biggest obstacle. My experience has taught me something different. Height may shape some experiences, but it doesn't define your character, your relationships, your accomplishments, or your capacity to live a meaningful life. Choose your mentors carefully—not because of how tall they stand, but because of how well they stand up to scrutiny.

So what are your thoughts on the Manosphere? Wish to challenge our thoughts? Bring it! We welcome it! Chat about it on our forums here... at The Lower View!

 

Like This Article? Chat About It And More On Our Forum For Shorter Men!

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